PLOT BUNNY POST

[willnotdespair]

Also going to be known as the 'LET'S PLOT ALL THE THINGS' post.

Anyways, I told Steph/Emil-Mun that I would make this so here it is! Just a forewarning I absolutely fail at these sort of things so sorry if this is a big mess!

Basically let's all talk about the possibly plots/plans that we currently have and sort them out and everything. This way we can get everyone involved in them and we can also sort them out so we don't completely screw things over with our characters since we have some that we don't want to completely break (Emil and Mithos for example).

As far as I know here are the basic rundowns of the current ideas we currently have:

- Mithos finding out something happens to Martel (not her death) and Lloyd and his friends are to blame. Still need to figure out how exactly Mithos is going to come to this conclusion but Yuan's ring that Lloyd oh so happens to have with him will be a part of it! And.. Mithos is going to find out about Kratos being a traitor somewhere along the lines too because we are horrible people.

- Lloyd and Kratos finding out that they're related. Kaito/Lloyd-Mun and Olga/Kratos-Mun can explain the details much more than me obviously but it has something to do with Zelos saying it and Kratos disappearing for a week (with this + what happens with Mithos on top of it*)

* Basically Kratos has become our cast's punching bag. WE LOVE YOU KRATOS

- ALL THE FLUFF TIMES AFTER ALL THE HORRIBLE THINGS WE DO.

Of course, we need to incorporate a few things into these (such as the rest of our lovely cast!) and obviously more plot things are more than welcome to happen! Such as Lloyd and Colette accidentally getting together which is so so much fluffier than the drama I've listed above! Also there are more details with the plots above but uh... I'll put them somewhere (probably edit this post with everything along the way for organization purposes).

So gogogogo! Let us plot to our heart's content!

Comments

[boredallready]

Everything looks accurate to me so far!

And yes, we do have more details on the Star Wars thing which...I don't trust myself to remember right now because shiny things are happening around me ^^; I will say that Lloyd's reaction will be pretty similar to canon. i.e. He'll be really bothered by it at first but start at least acknowledging it after...not too long.

And...yeah, I'm really easily distracted right now but I remember the other things I've talked about! XD

[knightofcourage]

No real plots for Emil right now, but I can volunteer him for stuff. I might be able to send him at Mithos when he starts blaming Lloyd and party? Like "Hey, I thought he killed my parents? Nope, imposter." Dunno if it'll help, but...

I also might be able to help with playing matchmaker! Emil's no good at his own feelings but if the optional "who did Lloyd quest with" thing in DotNW is any indication he ships Lloyd and Colette a tiny bit, haha.

He has no idea about the deal with Kratos though, with regards to either the Cruxis/traitor thing or the Lloyd's father thing. KRATOS-MUN, MAYBE WE CAN PLOT THINGS?

[flamberge]

YES DEFINITELY. :3 I was actually just about to hit you up on the cr meme and say we needed to do more with these two. Do you wanna plot things here or over AIM?

[knightofcourage]

Gotta do it here, I can't use my computer so it's my phone or school computers. I'll probably be slow until tomorrow, I've got a big exam tomorrow and need to deal with moving-related things.

Buuut I'm at lunch now, so - I know Emil's helping Kratos research BREW; how often do you think they'd be seeing each other? It'd be good to figure out a general idea of their interaction so far.

[flamberge]

Totally fine! Good luck with your exam!

Hmm possibly once a week or so? Kratos knows Emil has no reason to be as dedicated to researching as he is so he wouldn't expect too much from him. They could meet up at either the library or one of their apartments.

[flamberge]

* Basically Kratos has become our cast's punching bag. WE LOVE YOU KRATOS :|| HE IS NOT YUAN TYVM.

xD Anyway, yeah, everything seems good. I'll just add on a bit more detail to everything we got planned. First Kratos and Mithos have their fun falling out right before this. Mithos will call Kratos out on being a traitor and lying, Kratos makes himself out to be the bad guy. Emo ensures. Then Zelos spills the truth to them (still need to work out the details of how, when and where with both muns). Family shouting ensures and one of them will potentially storm away. Kratos will be completely emo for the next couple of days with possibly a network post. He'll also be MIA and will not take care of himself. Hell, he'll probably sit in an alley for 4 days till he realizes he needs a shower. :| Then everything gets worked out and fluffy times follow.

So yeah. Tl;dr Mithos and Lloyd will make Kratos emo more than he's ever emoed before and that's saying something. If anyone wants to add something to this or help them out with their issues, feel free to tell me~

[willnotdespair]

SORRY KRATOS. There isn't a Yuan to be our punching bag in Death City! Someone had to be his replacement! ♥

Okay thinking of something to contribute now

I think Mithos learning that Kratos is MIA will help with bringing everything back together. Maybe something along the lines of '... well he might be a traitor in the future but right now he's still my mentor'... or something. BUT YES. Fluffy times will commence after the fallout + that disaster.

... I thought I had something else but I forget. If I remember I'll be sure to say it though!

[flamberge]

FFFF SOMEONE ENABLE A YUAN. KRATOS CANNOT BE YUAN. HE IS BETTER AT ROMANCE AND FASHION AND EVERYTHING.

Awww Mithos, you're such a good kid. It's definitely a good start. Do you want Mithos to find out Lloyd's his son or not? And by that I mean, when Kratos makes his post to the network, you want it filtered from Mithos or should he see it or would it even make a difference? And to clarify on that, there's a high chance Kratos will make a post the day after asking what the hell to do because he's at a complete loss. It'll probably a text post with just one sentence or something.

[ninjainviolet]

I came up with an idea for the whole "meeting everyone 4000 years into the future" thing. Inspired by the mention of Ratatosk.

What if we work it that the Mithos they met was actually the "Spirit of the Tree" that had been asleep because the original attempt to germinate the seed failed, and although his life was lost, his spirit/soul remained trapped there in his Crystal. And he slept for those 3900 years. But when Sheena began making the pacts (since Mithos was "dead"--thanks, in-game Kratos), he was awakened like the other spirits, and decided to figure out what was going on. And Sheena's whole attitude could be attributed to: We met him, but we learned he was dead, and seriously, how do you react to seeing someone who's dead?

Part truth, part lie, based on Martel's story, but maybe? He'd still think he's a hero, but I'm not sure how he'd take to being called the "Spirit of the Great Tree."

[willnotdespair]

This... might work? I think before we can determine whether this can work we have to see what Lloyd tells Mithos when he asked how/when they met (which is in progress right now!) If Lloyd says something to contradict this then it might not help at all. Though this would clear up the confusion on Colette especially if they all say that they also know the legend of him sacrificing himself. What he won't get though is how does Yuan and Kratos fit into all of this... oh and his sister. She also has a Crystal so even if he fell into slumber for 3900 years she should be around like Yuan and Kratos right?

I also need to look over the details around Ratatosk (though someone is free to remind/tell me orz) but Ratatosk might be a problem as well considering that he was originally the Summon Spirit for the Kharlan Tree.

BUT SPEAKING OF WHICH I want Mithos to ask Sheena if she's met his sister. If their thread isn't done then he'll somehow ask there but if it is done he can always ask her the next time they meet (Zelos as well). Really though... there's no right way to answer the question. I don't think at least. But while knowing his sister's whereabouts seems to be something that he shouldn't question its... his sister. There has to be some reason and it's been bothering him and eating at him since his arrival.

tl;dr: It's a good idea if Lloyd doesn't screw things up before it can even happen and if they answer the questions about his companions! And I need/want Mithos to ask Zelos and Sheena whether they have met his sister.

[ninjainviolet]

Well, since Sheena's so far ahead, if Lloyd does say something contradictory, it can be attributed to him not knowing the truth yet. Kratos and Yuan could be explained as waiting for the seed to germinate in order to honor Mithos' plans (as originally hinted at in-game), and yes, Ratatosk was the name given to the original spirit, but after 4000 years, who's to say things couldn't be confused as to who is who?

As for Martel...Her brother's dead, she grieved so hard that she parted ways with Yuan and Kratos, giving the ring back. No one knows where she is, since she went into seclusion after a while. Although...why am I now getting the inspiration for Sheena to say: "For all I know, she could be my mother"?

[boredallready]

OH OH I REMEMBERED SOMETHING!

So whenever Lloyd finds out that Mithos knows about the 4000 years thing, I thought he might end up getting everyone else together for figuring this out. Such as seeing what everyone else knows first and/or going over what they shouldn't tell Mithos. Which Lloyd will probably screw up if he's the one explaining but if everyone but Mithos is there plenty of people could cover XD

I'm not sure how this idea will come about, it really depends on what happens and who's around him. He'll definitely want to look out for him at the very least because Kratos already threatened him about telling Mithos this stuff so that could carry over to the others as far as he knows.

And...maybe I should mention that Lloyd is going to be sticking up for Mithos the entire time because he really can't believe that he's that Yggdrasill because he's never acted crazy in that form around him. But he doesn't want to blow things and get killed or something.

Uhh, yeah. Any thoughts or questions or anything? I'm obviously a babbler so this may be confusing and I don't know it XD

[ninjainviolet]

Well, Sheena's the one who blabbed, so that part would be easy to figure out. :P

The bonus is, she's never referred to him as Yggdrasil. In her mind's eye, despite everything, they're two different people--like a multiple personality--and Mithos is the dominant personality. Even when in Yggy form. You know, like saving Genis because he's his friend. And seriously, those traps in the Tower? Why didn't he just meet up with everyone one-on-one? I don't think Mithos/Yggdrasil could seriously face everyone at that time. Not until Martel sent him totally bonkers...

[oblivious_klutz]

Colette will just be. Confused but try to help and understand as best she can given what little she knows re Mithos. Her reaction to Lloyd and Kratos being related will prob more or less go down as in-canon ie she is surprised but doesn't seem to hate the idea or anything and will nudge them together more most likely.

Date. What is a date you mean like the day/month/year right? Derp. ♥

[knightofcourage]

POTENTIAL EXPLANATION NUMBER TWO.

- Demons got out into the...well, non-demon world and interfered with the attempted germination of the new tree's seed.
- To stop them, Mithos did things and ended up in a deep sleep within the Eternal Sword. Over four thousand years, this got twisted into the sacrifice of legend.
- In the wake of Mithos's heroism and whatnot, the rest of his party ended up with a dilemma - any attempts to actively use the Eternal Sword would pretty much kill off Mithos. The best they could manage was a weak patch, i.e., the reverse-the-mana-flow seesaw that became the Chosen's journey.
- Kratos began searching for a way to save Mithos, and from there they could use the Eternal Sword and reunite the worlds and have happy endings and stuff. To this end, he was looking into the mana flow and mana reversals (from Sylvarant to Tethe'alla? Not sure).
- Blah blah blah early game as we know it. The big difference is the final seal and Kratos's betrayal: here Kratos perceives that something is going amiss somehow and aborts; this entails turning on the party. However, in the trouble that follows/on the way to Tethe'alla something happens and it actually ends up saving Mithos, who ends up in Ozette (possibly with slightly jumbled memories, if there are any discrepancies relating to that, and no memory of the events that led up to the sacrifice).

THINGS TO FIGURE OUT:
- Would Sheena (or...Zelos? I don't remember when the relevant sidequest is) know about demons? The first part kind of depends on this becoming a reasonable IC story; right now Emil knows of the existence of demons but they're not a serious thing to him yet.
- What is Mithos going to find out about Kratos's betrayal? The details are going to affect the details and/or plausibility of this story.
- Yuan's ring - still a thing. What is Lloyd going to be saying about this?
- Need to account for the fact that Kratos, Yuan, and Martel are all apart. I considered the idea that maybe they were separated over the worlds (i.e., Kratos/Yuan in Sylvarant and Martel in Tethe'alla) but since the party meets Mithos by traveling between the worlds this doesn't hold up right now.
- Aaaanything else? If you see any problems with this, please point them out so we can figure things out!

[ninjainviolet]

So, like when did you become a mind-reader? No, seriously, when did that happen? Because just about everything you came up with I thought of at work tonight. :P And now that my head is screwed on right, maybe I can participate. :)

The lies will be italicized, if that will help.

- One thing we all have to remember though, whatever the group tells Mithos will be a lie--for the most part. He will be taking the place of Martel as the one attached to the Great Seed, yet instead of being dead, he can be considered being in a coma the entire time--thanks to both his Crystal and the Mana flowing around him.

- Reason Martel isn't around: Despite their efforts, and her brother's sacrifice, the discrimination didn't stop. Half-elves were still thought inferior, although it was a half-elf that saved everyone. She initially worked with Kratos and Yuan as they secretly tried to free Mithos, but became fed up with each failure and continued hatred for half-elves. Eventually, she just left and went into seclusion, and no one has seen her since.

- Yuan's ring: In-game, he dropped it, and Lloyd found it, right? And I don't think he had had a chance to return it by the time he went through the Otherworldly Gate. So, that really shouldn't be a problem.

- The party meets Mithos near Ozette in Tethe'alla, and when he announces his name, they're shocked, but of course, he can't be the hero of legend right? Just named after him like Raine mentioned. Or like Sheena suggested, a hereditary name passed down like her own last name is. Which, if we go that direction, could be construed that Martel is alive and started the tradition of keeping the name alive--whether by her own children or by suggesting it to others. (Hey, she's got a Crystal, too, so why not?)

- Demons? Or do you mean the Summon Spirits? If it's the Spirits, Sheena's the one who mentions them when they find the unicorn in the lake, and they need the power of Undine to reach it.

- Which leads to how Mithos woke up. Sheena's making the pacts disturbed the balance of the mana and shocked him awake, and after 4000 years in a coma, yeah, he could have some memory loss (other coma patients do), and he moved on instinct instead of any real knowledge to make it to Ozette.

[willnotdespair]

Just going to point out contradictions because that's what I do! Original is in Italics and contradictions/answers are in bold. I'm thinking on Mithos terms here sooo here we go.

- Reason Martel isn't around: Despite their efforts, and her brother's sacrifice, the discrimination didn't stop. Half-elves were still thought inferior, although it was a half-elf that saved everyone. She initially worked with Kratos and Yuan as they secretly tried to free Mithos, but became fed up with each failure and continued hatred for half-elves. Eventually, she just left and went into seclusion, and no one has seen her since. The last part wouldn't make sense to Mithos. Martel is a lot like Colette and regardless of the discrimination and the war loved the world and would do anything to change it. Even with so many years he wouldn't believe that Martel would go into seclusion. Yuan? To Mithos he would be the most likely companion to do this since he initially joined them to prove something to the two other half-elves. Kratos? Perhaps. Martel? Not really. The two of them sort of bounced back and forth between helping each other but unlike Mithos I think Martel would continue to strive towards the goal especially if it was to help wake her brother up.

- Yuan's ring: In-game, he dropped it, and Lloyd found it, right? And I don't think he had had a chance to return it by the time he went through the Otherworldly Gate. So, that really shouldn't be a problem. Depends on how much of a derp Lloyd is and how he explains the ring. In fact... it's never stated in canon when Lloyd figures out that it's Yuan's ring. Not during any skits either (in fact Yuan isn't mentioned at all in any skits). So I guess it could break everything or do nothing.

- Demons? Or do you mean the Summon Spirits? If it's the Spirits, Sheena's the one who mentions them when they find the unicorn in the lake, and they need the power of Undine to reach it. Nope. Demons. The ones that are found in the book in Sybak.

I know there's something else but I can't find the words for it so I'll leave it with these.

[ninjainviolet]

I'm on my phone, so this might be short. Or split up.

Ok. I don't think we need to make the whole Mithos thing so complicated. The Mithos here in Death City can think he's the hero all he wants--since from Lloyd's POV, he's NOT the same Mithos he meets. Sheena can go along with that, since at the time, she didn't think so, either.

Kratos and Yuan. Doing exactly as stated in game: trying to carry out Mithos' wishes. He's the hero, he might think that pertains to making the failed germination happen.

Where's Martel? Lloyd's group at that time has no clue. Again, Sheena thought that, so she can play it. Kratos and Yuan of the future knew--but they never told.

But, if Raine and Genis are any clue, someone could say, "Watching Over Her Brother."

All of that goes with the game.

We really have to remember that at Lloyd's time, no one considers the Mithos they travel with to be the Hero of Legend.

[willnotdespair]

I... think we need a confirmation from Kaito/Lloyd-Mun on what Lloyd is thinking but I thought it was Lloyd can't see the idea of Mithos = Yggdrasill? I'm not sure if that's the same as him thinking that the Mithos here isn't the Mithos from back home. :x

I'm so so sorry for over-complicating things if that is the case. orz.

[ninjainviolet]

It's not you, dear. :) I started the complication, then went..."Duh! The game's the key!" Then pounded my head on a wall.

[boredallready]

I'll try my best to answer the confusion that seems to be revolving around what Lloyd thinks. But if I forget something or screw up let me know, I'm not certain I'm completely getting everything XD

I think the confusion over Lloyd's opinion of Mithos is because Lloyd didn't know the truth at that point even though OOCly we do and which side you're looking at it from. The only major difference Lloyd really sees is that Mithos can fight now. He's been told that the one he knew was really Yggdrasill, but yeah, he's having trouble believing it.

And as for the ring, from Lloyd's canon point you can't even start the sidequest where you give it back so he hasn't even seen Yuan looking for it anywhere. Lloyd only sees it as some weird old ring he found in Hima. So that puts it in a good position to help cement the misunderstanding since Lloyd won't know it could cause any problems.

Something I remembered last night.

[ninjainviolet]

Yeah, I can't believe I didn't think of this sooner, but right now, Sheena kind of likes Mithos, but sooner or later a certain knowledge is going to eat away at her.

He's the reason Corrine died. If Mithos hadn't lied to the Spirits, then Volt wouldn't have gone ballistic, and Corrine wouldn't have jumped in.

Illogical, yes. But totally understandable.

[flamberge]

Okay so I've been super quiet in all this till now and came up with a way simpler solution than trying to fill up plotholes that can't really be filled up. Simply put, keep confusing Mithos all you want minus the obvious of telling him Martel dies and stuff, because Kratos will handle damage control.

After the whole LUKE I AM YOUR FATHER reveal, Mithos and Kratos will have a talk. Here Kratos tells Mithos that yes, they have been lying to him about things and yes, there's a lot of stuff that he knows about the future. He'll then do a knightly crouch/bow kinda thing and ask for Mithos to forgive him for lying since it caused him a bunch of pain. Then he'll add that should Mithos really want to know, he'd reveal everything, but Kratos will then beg for to not be forced to do so since it's all being kept secret for Mithos' own well being. Mithos will tell Kratos to get up, for one, and that he'll try to not ask questions about the future anymore.

So yeah tl;dr Kratos will beg for Mithos to not ask questions and Mithos agrees.

[ninjainviolet]

And we can also be like, "You see how Kratos handled finding out his future. Besides, if we tell you things now, it might change everything we know."

Kind of like the Temporal Prime Directive....

[ninjainviolet]

Hey. This is something a few have already seen on plurk, but I thought I'd bring it up here, too.

Sheena's going to go crazy from the Madness and Zidane's going to try to bring her down.

So, how does that affect anything plotted here?

Well, if she's still affected afterward, she might still go after everyone that had been in the group--confusing them with her visions, or she might try to close them out of her life.

Note: If she mentions anything to Lloyd about his father in her rantings, she'll mean Dirk, since he's the one who raised him.